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Will This Get Me Pregnant? | How to overcome fears about motherhood












Season 1 Episode 2

Summary

This week Layne reveals why she doesn't have any babies (yet?) and explains her fears and doubts about motherhood. Jess speaks to the comedy and confusion of parenting a little boy who loves his penis (as they all do) and how to maintain your identity when you also have to be someone's mom. We discuss why toddlers are the best and how community can keep you going when you feel like drowning. A listener whose toddler has "love aggression" asks how to keep her child from hurting the new baby and nurture their sibling relationship at the same time.


Join Very Good Mothers Club to be a part of our community and get your questions answered on a future episode!


Find Jess at Jessica Hover on Youtube and @jess_hover on Instagram


Find Layne @enquiryco on Instagram



Transcript

Jessica:

Layne, you know how I just told you that story about my son and his penis?


Layne:

Will you tell it to me again?


Jessica:

I would love to. So I’m in this really beautiful state of parenting that I've never been in before because I've never had a toddler son. But it turns out they love their penises. I guess. I've heard from other moms that this is a real experience and I'm right in it.


Layne:

I am here to tell you as a person who has been the teacher of two year old boys...Love their penis.


Jessica:

Oh, see, I love this. This is so funny.


Layne:

I want to enunciate, they love their penises.


Jessica:

And I love their love for their penis. I find it to be like a comedy at all times. So Wilson was at a party. He's probably going to hate that I'm telling you this. So just pretend I didn't tell you once he turns like 18. He was at a birthday party recently. We don't know everybody there very well, and he pulled down his pants and said, “I would like to show everyone at this party, my penis.” (laughter)"I hear you. It's amazing. We're not going to do that." And theN a few nights later we're at the dinner table and he stands up and pulls down his pants and says, “Eloise, would you like to squeeze my willie?” like it's the most pure hearted like enthusiasm. And I'm like "Ahh no, no buddy, only you squeeze your willie." And then I'm pausing to like hear my own words. Nobody trained me for what I'm supposed to say in this moment. And then he looks at me with just like the most pure hearted eyes and he's like, “Mom, I'm just sharing. She didn't get one, you know?”


[Theme Music]


Jessica:

Welcome to episode two of the Very Good Enough podcast. We were thinking it might be nice for you to know who you're listening to, and why we're here. And since many of you know me already, I'm assuming because you're here, I would love for you to start us off. Well, you just give us an intro of who you are and how you found yourself here talking about toddlers and young children.


Layne:

It's been a long road. It's been a long road. I'm Layne Deyling Cherland. I am the founder of Enquiry Co, which is a company that supports parents and teachers in early childhood. And my background is as a preschool teacher, which I accidentally stumbled into at 22 years old. I was in a job where I was working next to someone who I loved who was never gonna love me back. And my dear friend was like, “No, this is not worth it.” So she scooped me up as a good friend does and plopped me into the classroom next to hers. And I wandered in like "Sure, what is this going to be about?" And I found two year olds, as though no one had never ever heard of them before. I discovered them and then couldn't talk like couldn't stop talking about it for years and years, genuinely as though I had invented them that everyone was like “Yeah, they're cool.” I'm like, "This is the highest form of humanity. This is the only time people are ever telling the truth." These are like the claims. No one is ever going to tell you the truth about their penis again. Wilson will never tell you the truth.


Jessica:

Sad.


Layne:

It’s sad and it's beautiful. And it's so poignant because it is so limited. The very fleeting nature of early childhood and for me, especially two year olds, is what makes it so, like, viciously precious.


Jessica:

Are they honest because they're not aware of everyone else yet?


Layne:

They think the whole world sees the world the way they see it. They just discovered that they exist as like, an individual who's not the same as you, mom, or the environment and world that they're in. So they just found themselves but they still haven't explored what that means or collected any data and they do it in this very gorgeous way. They don't care about anything except for their own experience. There's something uniquely raw and charming and powerful and volatile and true about a two year old who is completely egotistical in the sense that they only hold their own perspective. And obviously you shouldn't stay like that. But when you’re two that's what, that's all you are. And you're just this like powerhouse of experience and exploration and...obviously I enjoyed it.


Jessica:

It's funny that you were not only like love it but you would love it since it was an accidental job but here you are. All these years later. So when did you stop teaching preschool because you're not currently?


Layne:

I'm not currently, it's been a few years. I actually fortuitously finished out the year before COVID started.


Jessica:

The word fortuitous. Reminds me of part of what this podcast will bring you is just an amazing vocabulary. I learn new words from her all the time. I googled liminal one of the first times we hung out I was just wanting to make sure that I thought it meant what you thought it meant.


Layne:

That's one of my favorites.


Jessica: And I can't remember but now, you remember if I thought I think I did because you explained it. But anyway, I'm just saying be prepared for you to speak with a vocabulary that will surprise the masses after this podcast.


Layne:

I was forced to read a lot of books as a small child. Fortuitously--meaning of good fortune--before COVID. Before COVID, that was my last year. I guess that would make it 2018. Or over the summer of 2019. So I taught preschool and then was in administration and teaching kind of toggling between like, managing and training and then also being in the classroom for six years.


Jessica:

Wow. Okay. When did that evolve into you having your own business?


Layne:

I took a little break from education entirely. I went and managed a vintage clothing store which my criteria were like, “Let's be somewhere beautiful and quiet, where everyone keeps themselves alive.”


Jessica:

So not like a toddler classroom?


Layne:

No, I just needed… I started so young and I did it so so wholeheartedly like all the years of my soul open that I like burned out in the very natural way. It's a very hard field and I mean, I think the lifecycle is usually three typical life cycle of early childhood education.


Jessica:

So take care of your early childhood educators is really a good takeaway.


Layne:

Yes. Yep. Donuts ,Trader Joe's gift cards. Lots of love. Okay, yeah. So I taught I managed that store for a little while and then I just I guess I just didn't feel done. And that is kind of still the state that I'm in where I feel, I feel and felt that I had accumulated so much of this knowledge and passion and kind of like written my own stories around how to be with children and I felt like I had unearthed some things that were unique to my perspective. And that seemed to be really meaningful to people. So some of that was just kind of still hovering in the background. And I felt and feel like it's it still needs to get out and be useful. So I started Enquiry Co. and I started with just curriculum, three, four year old curriculum, which is available and great. But I also now, I'm in this sort of lovely moment and you kind of met me in this moment of transition where I'm was really assessing, how do I want to do business and what is is this actually like the channel for all of this stuff that needs to get out? There's a lot of exploration still, and that's kind of where you're finding me and hopefully some of what this podcast is going to serve?


Jessica:

Is you giving what you have to all of these parents now who are listening like, "Please help me understand my toddler." It's definitely for me, like affirming to hear that it's really hard for people to work with toddlers long term. I feel like as a mom, it's a bit validating because for the especially for those moms who are full time moms, I hear from those moms, and they're like, “Wow, I can't figure out who I am like I'm having a hard time thinking, "I'm really burnt out or like I my toddlers losing it, and I want to be able to handle it properly, but I can't manage my own reactions to help them manage theirs.”And when I hear you say like this is a career that people end up turning around from quickly, that's very good for moms to understand that this is just a hard time of life. They're beautiful creatures. And if you can understand what's going on in them, it can provide some perspective that could really help change things. But for the tired toddler mom, that's really affirming. You're tired because this is tiring work. And it's hard.


Layne:

Yeah, it's like you were saying that last week of wanting to just always be there to remind people like, this is hard because it's hard. There's turbulence because you're flying an airplane through the wind. The nature of it is very challenging. And you're not creating the hardship. You're actually just in a thing that is wild and emotional and volatile.


Jessica:

Yes. Are you married? I know the answer. Are you married?


Layne:

I am, like aggressively, aggressively married, married.


Jessica:

Married for five years?


Layne:

Six? Six years in November. It's September right now.


Jessica:

So here's the question: you would be such a good mom. You have all of this in you like, when I see you I'm like, "wow, she I mean, I'd be lucky to be her kid." Tell me, Layne Deyling Cherland--Why don't you have kids? I mean, I know that there's a little bit of comedy around this too. So it's gonna take us...but you are like the kid woman. But you don't have any and you actually don't want any at the moment, correct?


Layne:

Yes. Yes. And I have to tell you, I have a lot of a lot of fears. We're about to talk about a lot of fears. One of my fears in this podcast is that feel like you might get me pregnant.


Jessica:

I might? Oh, because you're around baby energy here?


Layne:

And being so you about all the things. I’m terrified that this may be the way that the stars align for me, to have just like provided this nice person and give me everything's right. Like, here you are at 31 and we brought along this lovely community member now so...have a baby,


Jessica:

But I bet some of the fears you have are the same fears I had, because even though I'm like the mom, lady, I did not want to be a mom and this was actually a point of like stress in my marriage, which I'll go into later. But Shaun was so excited to be a dad. I think that we got married, I was 20 and he was 22. If I got pregnant the month after we got married, I think he would have been thrilled. I don't even think there would have been an adjustment time he would have thought that's really cool. When I was like, “No way ever”. And then the one day my sister got married, my little sister and I have kind of a maternal role in her life or I did at the time. She got married, and I just felt this sort of relief in me and in sort of a release as well as like okay she is safe and I went Shaun was like, “I think I could be a mom.” I think we could have a baby. He was like tonight is the night. We were pregnant soon after. But I was so afraid and I even with each child, I think fear is one of the major things that I've dealt with more than anything else. So let's launch into a little bit of fear conversation.


Layne:

I have been waiting my whole life for the thing that people told me have always told me was going to happen. “Oh, when you fall in love, you'll be like, I gotta have this person's baby.” "Oh, when you approach 30, you'll be like, Oh, shit, my eggs."


Jessica:

You can swear it's fine. Guys, I'm leaving that in. I want to leave it in. I like it. I think it's real. You guys will have to tell us though. Like if you're watching with your kids, yeah. Or listening with your kids. We'll try and scale it back. Okay.


Layne:

I can scale it back.


Jessica:

You tell us because if you're like "No, I'm listening with headphones. Just talk real," then like, perfect. Okay, they can tell us, they can tell us. Okay, so anyway...


Layne:

Yeah, it's this thing people said you'll be like, "Oh no, I'm gonna lose all my eggs" and something will happen inside. You'll one day, you'll be in a store and you'll hold a pair of babies. And when you're holding these babies socks your ovaries will explode inside you and then when they recover --you are pregnant! I'm 31 now and I've been in love for a long time. And I am super in love. And I just, that thing that's like supposed to happen...hasn't. Yeah, my mom was very adamantly not wanting to be a mother. She, worked really hard to not and changed birth control a few times in her life and got some babies out of it. That's my understanding anyway, is that that's what happened. It felt like love to her to carefully not pass on some of the dark things in her own past and family lineage. And so I watched her really find her way through finding herself in this place and like really actively trying to do her best and yeah, a lot of her best was great. And a lot of her best was not, not what I needed it to be. And, and so I'm sure there's some of that in there. Like that, that's gotta be in there. But I also am just like, "That's so gross." Like you gotta grow like...you're gonna, I gotta grow this baby with my guts and like, feel it scrape around from the inside and it has to come out. And then nurse it, like feed this baby with your body, it's this very like, animal thing that for everyone else I'm like into all the pieces and it is interesting. There was a transition a few years ago into feeling like "Oh, if I had a baby, I could totally do this." Like it stopped being this thing of "I would lose my mind." I do know what to do. I do know which part, which side of diaper goes in front and the child development and all this like stuff. Yeah, and I do think I could do a really good job. I just also feel like if you're going to make a new person, you should like really, really, really want to be a mom. And I know that's a thing that happens on accident all the time. I don't mean to be like putting that onto anybody’s story.


Jessica:

It’s just, it's been such a wrestle for you. So you're like I want to arrive there willingly with like,


Layne:

My husband would like to have a baby.


Jessica:

Whoa. This podcast is getting interesting.


Layne:

It's a lengthy discussion and we're still having like very open talks. And I'm grateful to have a relationship where they we each care very deeply about the other person living a life that feels satisfying to them. And it's very meaningful to me that this is feels important to my husband to like, have this human experience. So I don't know.


Jessica:

That’s so cool you guys are talking about it and things could change, things change for you. Things could change for him and surprise babies happen you know, Jules, she was my surprise girlfriend and I cried a lot of tears. They're on YouTube if you want to find them. She's the best. I'm so glad I had her but there is something really intense about a surprise.


Layne:

Yeah, I think there's a part of me that's like trying to keep it in the gambling space. Either an accident will happen or I'll just get really old. But yeah, it is interesting in the narrow topics there is a whole conversation to be had and is happening about all the people who are already alive in the world and don't have parents and that I wouldn't have to grow. But I do think one of the things that is like big and scary to me that I think is like very interwoven in your story, is who to be when you're somebody's mom, like, "Where does all the Layne go when you have to focus on this like, other person's life?" And it seems like so many, maybe even most women who go through that transition and up in this world where they seem underwater. And they seem like they can't find ,like, I don't know. I don't know what it is--when I when I look I just, I feel scared about how buried people seem in the kid stuff...And like where does the person go in the kid world? And that's very different from teaching where I'm in charge of the kid world and then I go home.


Jessica:

You just described I think my whole heart and soul for this, and even like your vulnerability to share about how your mother's struggles impacts you, I think...I mean, I really treasure my mom. I respect her a lot. And she also has struggled and mental illness that, at least from my understanding got more intense once having kids entered the picture. And so for me, there was definitely this kind of thing, idea that like having kids is what ruins your life. Or like having kids is what halts your life. So you live until you have kids and then suddenly your life is about the kids. And I come from a family where there's like multiple suicides and they are I don't mean to go like so dark, but that's the reality of what I think about behind the scenes, and even someone very, very dear to me, who when she had her second child tried to take her life because she was underwater. She was feeling so that feeling and my heart is like how can we help those people keep swimming? So I wrote a book a few years ago, I didn't realize it's like almost done. I think I should like secretly give it to people and just be like, do you like this? Because it's interesting, but I wrote it after I came out of my period of being depressed and having to go to the mental hospital. And there's this one part where I talk about how when a new beginning happens, we're all so excited and it's almost like this launch into a swim towards of like, towards a beautiful destination, right? And so, that could be like a wedding. You're so excited about your wedding. You're so excited about the future marriage, and you make all these incredible vows. Any new beginning is this amazing experience of like, here we go. We're going to start this off and it's going to be awesome. But then there's this period where you're like swimming so long that you can't really remember or rather like you can't see where you came from, because you can still remember like, oh yeah, I remember my wedding or I remember when I was having this baby like being really excited about it. But you're far from the shore, and you're far from where you're going. And what I was writing about was that feeling for me felt like, "Well, I guess I might as well drown like, I guess, I guess...or not even like I might as well it's like, I guess I'm gonna." I either need a new beginning. So I'm looking like, Is there a new shore? Which I was thinking even that happens like, you want to end your marriage and find a new one to start or you think I mean, I've heard of this actually a lot of times where people kind of feel like they blew it with their first child. So like, Okay, I need a new beginning. I need a second child to do this differently with. And what I wrote about was how really, probably what we need most is people to just remind us like, we can do this, keep swimming, hang in there. You're not going to drown. We're going to keep you up and the power in that. And then now to be on the other side, even further--at that point of writing the chapter I was just just barely on the other side of it--but now here I am. I just see so many people feel that thing that you see that makes you nervous about becoming a mom, which I think a lot of people feel even pregnant people are looking around at parents being like, oh, no, like, where am I going? And you don't have to feel like you're drowning inside of parenthood. But maybe one of the first keys to staying afloat is having community in your life. Or having people who are speaking hope into you. I mean listening because podcasts could be one example of that, but friendship, connection, anything that can keep you feeling like, "I'm above this." What I'm not doing is trying to convince you to have a kid but for the moms and for the mom who might be listening going, "Oh no, actually what you just described is what I feel." I felt that too and it's not, I don't think it's the way parenthood has to be. I think that moments of that happen inside of parenthood, but probably people would argue that moments like that happen inside of...singles like people who are single or, or married but without children. There's seasons you go through that feel like "Whoa," for whatever reason we're drowning in some way. But parenthood you just see it most visibly because the parents are like crumbs everywhere and you hear sounds of songs. I'm actually picturing, one time. this is real... I was pregnant with Eloise. And we, wherever we were driving, I like looked out the window. And there was a woman who was getting out of her car. And she just looked like she was having a day and like her car was a minivan and it was full of stuff and, just the angle I had, I could see there was like, Happy Meal trash everywhere. And the kids were not happy and she did not look happy. And the sound was like really cheesy kid music and I called Shaun crying and I was like, "I don't know if I'm gonna be able to this. I don't know if I can do this." But I've lived some of those moments and I'm okay, we're okay. Kids music, there's some good stuff. We just got to find it. But actually Shaun did something really good. I mean, a lot of parents do this, I would do this but he just started introducing them to music that he loves that he knows is fun enough that they would love it too. And so it's made car rides more pleasant for him when he's driving around with all three of them.


Layne:

I think that's one of the mysteries of the universe that your husband has solved.


Jessica:

Yeah, I think you have to balance kid music and that because they still beg for the stuff they love. But it's usually like "Okay, you guys get one song then Daddy gets one song then you guys get one song."


Layne:

That's like, a real reciprocal relationship. Like that's the beginning of like, human boundaries. "There are two of us here. And my experience is important and your experience is important. This is my edge and that's your edge."


Jessica:

Layne, we want to take questions from moms in the community. Can I start us off with one? I know that you and I have talked about this type of situation before so I feel like you're going to have a great answer. And I've talked to this mom directly so I'm not going to read the question. I'm just gonna tell you her situation. Her situation is that she has three kids, by the way, she's not me. She has a two year old and a baby. The two year old gets love aggression essentially is what it looks like. And it's very aggressive. And this mom she is consistent. She is there at all times to separate them. But the little two year old girl to her little brother is pinching him, drawing blood, biting him, drawing blood. And it's now been weeks of this so it's been really, I mean the mom, when I talked to her she had tears in her eyes like, "I don't know what else to do. I'm not sure what to try." Do you have tips for how to help a two year old handle that because it's, it's coming from a place of love like it's not... It's very obvious that she's not upset at the little one. It'd be different if it was like that. What do you think?


Layne:

It's pretty classic. That's one of the first like... I've got this toddler and I have this new baby. Why is my previously sweet and delightful little toddler just like harming our fresh new baby. And also here are all my hormones about it. Is like very, very classic. So I do hope that... The first thing would be to know that that's just very real and very, very normal. Okay, it's very, very normal. My very first two pieces of advice for toddler parents... They all kind of start with this pattern of first, sort of adult regulation. And then the next one is data collection. A lot of toddler behavior and particularly that it looks kind of scary, like the visual of it from an adult perspective and the sound it feels like, it raises those alarms inside and it feels scary. And so, and so now you have this like precious two year old who was just your tiny little baby and you feel scared of them. And then that feels guilty. Yeah, there's a real compound feelings. So just want to like acknowledge and hold those feelings because that part is actually kind of the most important part is the adult being able to like place this correctly inside of themselves so


Jessica:

That she can respond that versus reacting to that, right?


Layne:

Yeah, she can understand and know and decide what she wants to do. Rather than being like, super caught up in the, in these very real big feelings. Her two year old is totally okay. It's totally okay that this is happening and that that urge is happening. And of course we're not gonna let that behavior continue.


Jessica:

But that's not saying the child's unhealthy or something.


Layne:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And she's right that the two year old doesn't want to hurt the baby. That's like not the goal inside of this little person. So just like, hopefully, there's like a little bit of relaxing in that and then she mom gets to do what she needs to do in order to get herself some relief. If this has been happening for weeks and weeks on end, it might be time to call somebody in and handoff and even though it feels hard, it might feel guilty to be like, "I'm gonna go get coffee all by myself and not be next to these two little people," that might be the perfect thing. Right? Like a well regulated mom who's able to be inside of herself and make choices is the absolute best thing for these two children, as opposed to a mom who is running out of what she needs, trying to just be there and be there and be there and be there. Yeah, so taking care of herself is paramount. And then next to the data collection, and I think if she can spend some time just like really, really not making any major changes to what she's doing or focusing on trying to make this problem stop but just really noticing: What was happening before? What was toddler doing? What was I, mom, doing? Like, where am I in the room when this thing happened?


Jessica:

How close is this to mealtime or bedtime?


Layne:

Was she previously playing with something else? How long has it been since she's like, run or jumped? Or like what kinds of things are her body doing? Just like really? And if you can take notes, I find it really helpful even if it's just a quick little voice memo to yourself.


Jessica:

It's interesting because it makes sense hearing this why you would start with a mom regulating herself because if you're feeling panicked, taking a few days to collect data feels really freaky, Because you're like, hold on. I've been doing this for weeks. Now, how am I supposed to let this continue? I just need a quick solution. But if she can back into like, "Nope, relax, everything's fine. You're doing such a good job as a mom, this is really intense. I'm sorry, this is so hard." Okay, everything is like sort of sorted out inside of her. Then she can be the observer who collects the data from a place of just maybe more peace.


Layne:

Good. I'm glad that that makes sense. Likely solutions, if I was to like throw a few out without... I don't have data about this particular child. So it's likely either that she does kind of need something, whether it's attention or food or snuggles or like maybe to have just like have her own little body really squeezed or something. OR--and this one feels right, just in my little bones, this one feels a little bit more like it to me--I think that the toddler might be needing some kind of sensory input that goes along with her social interaction with the baby because it sounds like she's super excited. And I mean, we all have that sort of like, "That's so cute I want to crush it!" I literally, my husband showed me a video of our our brand new nephew this morning. And I was like, "Look at that face! Bite it! Crush its face! I love it so much. I just want to squeeze it."


Jessica:

Says the girl who just told us…


Layne:

Oh, I love everybody else's babies.


Jessica:

Okay, so you still have that?


Layne:

It's just, the urge is very real and it exists in adults, and we're all very familiar with that. But for our two year old, they don't have a way to know like, "I need to squeeze something. I need to bite something." I would really play into that for her. I mean, I would have, in a calm and quiet moment, a little talk with the toddler and be like, "Hey, this thing keeps happening with baby and I know you know about it, but like the squeezing and the scratching. Remember these little marks. We gotta make sure it doesn't happen cuz I want you to be able to be with this baby and play with it and love it but I only let people touch my baby gently. So I got you this." And I would look for something that's maybe like those kind of like foam letters or blocks or even like like the consistency of a makeup sponge--I don't know what those are made out of there. "Use it when you have this feeling. You want to visit the baby, let's go visit the baby. Let's go get your fun toy!" So that there's something already in her hands that she can destroy. If she needs to have like that feeling of digging your fingernails into something or that biting feeling, it may be that she just really needs to have that input for processing this feeling and then practice the social interaction as opposed to it just being this huge, "No."


Jessica:

That's amazing. I would have never thought of that. Really that's genius.


Layne:

Yeah, looking for ways to meet the need, looking for ways to turn a problem into a yes.

Yes, come and be near the baby. Yes, come in be with us. Yes, this is exciting. This is how we touch the baby and here's your toy.


Jessica:

That's really good. That’s great. Can I promote you for a second? Yeah. So if you want a one on one call with Layne you can have it. And the way to do that… well are there multiple ways to do that?


Layne:

Um, I mean, it’s a pretty straightforward Calendly link but…


Jessica:

Is it on your Instagram or should they join our community? If you join at very goodmothersclubhouse.com it's our membership. You can try it out for a week for free. You could even go in there, try it out for a week for free. And during that free week, use the link that she has in there. It's a 30 minute call right? And moms have been doing it and dads too right?


Layne:

Yeah, yeah, actually, quite a few dads and that's been a real privilege and a pleasure. Yeah, so some couples too. That's the most fun. You get both caregivers on the same page and everybody kind of hearing the same information and no one has the responsibility of translating.


Jessica:

Yes. I love it. Guys. This can be available to you. You can also follow her on Instagram and you're really good at getting back to people. But I would love for you to get in contact with Layne and I would love for you to be a part of our online community because it's a great way for them to access you personally but then also, you lead calls with us we do like weekly zoom calls, and she leads some of them and you can really just bring your situation to the call and she'll speak directly to it. This is good…is there anything else to say?


Layne:

We invited everybody, we... definitely the paid community is like, the place that we're focusing most of our attention and energy, but I'm @enquiryco on Instagram.


Jessica:

Yeah. And I'm @jess_hover on Instagram if you want to follow my family, we're around we would love to hear from you.


Layne:

We would absolutely love to.


Jessica:

Yeah, and we'd love to hear like, what do you want to see here or hear here? What would you like to hear?


Layne:

I think the only thing left to do is for you to tell them what a good job they're doing.


Jessica:

Oh my gosh, you guys are doing such a good job. Such a good job. As we said last week, if you are here and you're aware enough about yourself that you want to be a good parent, you are a good parent. and we are so excited that you're here. We just value your time and hope that you guys have a really good day or night, depending on when you're listening to this.



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