Season 1 Episode 1
Summary
In their first podcast episode EVER, Jess and Layne take deep breaths and learn how to correctly speak into microphones. They compare themselves to pilots and discuss how to handle turbulent times in life, how to keep perspective and how we can be "the village" for each other. Jess explains the podcast's name, shares how she handled making mistakes early in motherhood and what makes a good mother. Layne talks about why she's afraid of becoming a mom and how teaching preschool made her a better person. Then we discuss how parents can be more present, how to understand your child from their own perspective and how mindfulness can enrich your relationship.
Join Very Good Mothers Club to be a part of our community and get your questions answered on a future episode!
Find Jess at Jessica Hover on Youtube and @jess_hover on Instagram
Find Layne @enquiryco on Instagram
Transcript
Jess Hover:
Welcome to our podcast! You guys, we have a podcast and I'm welcoming you, but I'm sort of welcoming us. We've never done a podcast before. My name is Jessica Hover.
Layne:
I'm Layne Deyling Cherland and this is Very Good Enough a podcast from Very Good Mothers Club.
Jessica Hover:
We are so excited, and actually also pretty nervous. It's going to be amazing and we're so thankful you're here.
[THEME MUSIC]
Jessica:
Are we nervous?
Layne:
Yeah. Do you want to tell me what you feel scared about?
Jess:
I'm nervous. No, I had like a spiral today. I was like, none of my clothes fit me right anymore. I should get a gym membership. I don't know who I am. Shaun’s like "You might be scared." Oh, yeah. And I'm scared. So I think I might also get a gym membership and some clothes. Yeah, my birthday was recently and I texted my sister today asking for my birthday if she could get me an outfit because she couldn't get me anything. And she said yes.
Layne:
That’s nice.
Jessica:
In the meantime, I'm wearing Shaun's shirt.
Layne:
It looks nice on you.
Jessica:
I know
Layne:
It's a crisp creamy shirt. It’s good for your coloring. It looks good against the wall.
Jessica:
I thought it might make me look professional if I had a collared shirt but I forgot that the short shorts also take away from the professionalism so…
Layne:
I hear you. I wore my fanciest pants and then crop so then I also have super business…
Jessica:
But we're also fun.
Layne:
Also so fun. Yes, I too have had a few, a few different spirals in the last couple of hours.
Jessica:
Okay.
Jessica:
Yeah, I did think of a really beautiful analogy that I think we're kind of like pilots. In the way that a pilot flies an airplane through turbulence. And if it's the first time this rough patch of air has been experienced, then the pilot especially if they're new, they feel like “Oh, no, I'm going down.” If I was a pilot, that's me. I'm sure that's not what they think. Pilots watching, they can correct me, but here was my analogy. So just go with it. It’s like a pilot goes through rough air and they've got turbulence and maybe it's terrifying. And maybe they're like, “Whoa, this might be the end of me. I don't know if I'm gonna get through this.” And then they power through and then they get through it. And then they immediately radio to other pilots in the area or to the people who tell you other pilots in the area, “There's rough air here. You might feel some turbulence, you think you're going down, you are not going down. Your plane was actually designed to stay up and you know that and I know that, but when you're in the thick of the turbulence, you forget.”
And then the pilot might say something like, “What I would do differently is I would try and go lower than I went or I would try and go higher. You're not going to avoid the turbulence, but it is going to be a bit smoother. And if it isn't a bit smoother, then there's probably someone on there who's like, you could just talk to me through it and you'll get through”.
And I was thinking that so much of what you and I do is we experience stuff with kids, whether it's me as a mother or friends of friends of mothers, or you as an educator, and it's turbulent. And in some cases for me, I was looking backwards at my seven years of parenthood and remembering that there was a time when I thought I was going down. I was literally in a mental hospital because I was so suicidal. Eloise was two. And I was like wow, I guess motherhood just isn't isn't my sweet spot, it's going to take me out and I can't do this and I'm, I'm the wrong person for this job. And then I got the help that I needed. And I became the pilot who then tells the other pilots like “Hey, you feel like it's going to take you out and it's not going to take you out you were actually designed to get through this. But looking back, here's what I'd do differently." And now that I have a few more kids, I've been able to make some of those alterations, and even so it's still turbulent. But it's just this ongoing messaging of like, “It's not going to take you down but it is bumpy, but you can get through it.”
And if you're freaking out, we're here and we'll be the voice that reminds you like you can do this. Here's another way to try this. Try this. See if this eases the turbulence at all. And if it doesn't, that's okay. It's just, it's a rough air. You were made to get through it. The planes not going down. I think that's us.
Layne:
I love that. I think that makes so much sense.
Jessica:
Right?
Layne:
I mean, that makes so much sense because it really does feel, the stakes feel so high. And they kind of they kind of are…
Jessica:
Right.
Layne:
Like really high, like these are real people, like real actual small people with like bright, wide open eyes and souls, like scurrying around this little world trying to find out--What does it mean to be a person, what does it mean to be here? And they're just looking right at you for all of that and it feels so big and so intense. And no one's ever done it before. You have never done it before. Not with this child. Not in this way. Not in this moment. And it does feel so gnarly.
And I do feel like the thing, like one of the only things that anyone can do for you is take the light of what they've experienced and what they know and just shine it for you a little bit and sort of unravel some of the knots, give you some understanding of, “This is what it is. This is what's happening. This is normal. You're doing great.”
Jessica:
Yeah. And the idea that like it's hard because it's hard. There's turbulence because the air is rough. There's not turbulence because you're a bad pilot, this isn't hard because you're a bad mom. It's hard because it's hard. And I think years ago, there was the village concept, right? And you, you could actually go to places on this planet where people still live in the village. This is kind of our way of offering some sort of village type love and care. And if they want more of it, we have all these different ways that they can actually get connected to us more so it doesn't just need to be us speaking to them through the speaker or the camera, right? But yeah, it's like our way of being in the village that everybody talks about and craves. But we don't live out as much anymore.
Layne:
Yep. Yep. I love it. I love it. I love that we can still get some of that. In a world that is shaped very differently from maybe how humans used to or should be taught…
Jessica:
Totally
Layne:
…interacting with one another in order to get the fullness of what we need from each other. But finding some ways to like, pare it down. What is the need? What can we do to fill that need for each other? I think actually, I'm gonna hand it back to you because what we're doing is of course, nestling a podcast within the umbrella of what you and your community have created called Very Good Mothers Club and drawing some of our sort of principles and our named from that. So you picked that--Can you tell me why that matters?
Jessica:
Yeah, I'd be happy to. I'd also be happy to say that I am honored, privileged, so excited to be able to do it with you.
Layne:
Thank you
Jessica:
And this is like a friendship that's kind of happening right in front of you. We're connecting and getting to know each other and falling in love is happening like right before your very eyes.
Layne:
Before your very eyes.
Jessica:
We met just sort of like "Oh, you have a business that focuses on toddlers and I have a business that really focuses on mothers," I guess parents, and we wanted to kind of see if there was a way that we could overlap the things we were doing. And then I was like, “Oh my gosh, this girl is incredible. Like everybody in my community needs to know her. We need to share her wealth of wisdom with everyone." And so yeah, here we are. And I feel like the lucky one.
Layne:
That's wild, Jess because I feel like the lucky one sitting over here with my little well of things to talk about and trying to find people who want to hear them, trying to find the ways to get them out into the world and let the things that I've collected and nurtured and written and care about be useful. I feel like I've just been digging to try and find some kind of way to irrigate this knowledge out in the world where it can be valuable. And then here you show up.
Jessica:
Yeah, with somebody…with the audience who are so many parents who are toddler parents because they've been following me since babies because I started by making videos about babies. And so I had the audience and you have the expertise and together we have this. I don't know I think it's chemistry.
Layne:
I think chemistry is as good a word as any. What is ever the magic between two people?
Jessica:
Yeah there's magic of some kind happening right here. So, Very Good Mothers Club, the name, I mean, actually, I was thinking about it while driving over here because I knew that this is something I would need to explain. The name itself has a bit of like a cheeky background. It actually started as a joke and when I was thinking back to like, how did the very good mother thing start? It started with my daughter, Eloise, so I have a seven year old and as any mother does, I made a lot of mistakes. And just the kind of stuff is like I was pushing a stroller with a hot drink on it and I hit a bump and it spilled on her. That was a mistake. Yeah. And so Eloise got to an age where I started telling her about my mistakes in like a comical way, like with silly voices and I would tell her like, “Well you're very good mother did this” and then she giggles and she's like, “Tell me another very good mother story.”
And it's all my like silly things. But it felt like it was a way of connecting with her and sort of releasing this tension. You can be very good mom if you try hard and you love your kid. You're gonna make mistakes. We're all gonna make mistakes, but you're still a very good mom. And I think there's even some science that I read it a while ago, so I'm not going to quote it very well. But there was studies done on parents and the ones who were perfectionists were less happy, they did not fare as well as the mothers who were just trying to be good enough. And I love that concept that if we're just trying to be good enough, which means we do our best and sometimes we blow it and we have to recover and ideally we can laugh about it at some point and everybody's okay.
But that's good. That's good enough. That's very good, in fact. I think that's what we can aspire to. And so Very Good Mothers Club is just sort of this place where I wanted moms to feel safe and comfortable to gather, especially a mom who might be like, “Gosh, I don't know if I'm cut out for this.” If you're a mom, you're cut out for this. You did it. Well done. You're a mom, you nailed that. And so now it's just figuring out how can we help you be more comfortable in that role? How can we help you understand the context of your life better? And we've been, I don't know, gifted with the opportunity to even speak into the lives of dads and just different families who come in. They're like, “Yeah, I love my kids. I don't necessarily love parenthood or I don't necessarily feel like this is my sweet spot.” That's something I thought of to driving here is that that sweet spot concept comes up because when I was first trying to figure out motherhood. I have a friend, she's an amazing mom, like exceptional mom. She has four kids. And I remember her telling me that motherhood was her sweet spot before she had kids or sorry, before I had kids. She had kids before me. So I had that in my head thinking that that might happen to me that I'll have my kids and I will find my sweet spot. And I was like the furthest thing from a sweet spot. I felt like I was so much better at all these different jobs I had previously had. I also felt like I enjoyed the other jobs more. Maybe because I felt so bad at motherhood that I was like, “Oh, this isn't fun. I'm struggling a lot.”And and so once I started making videos just being a little bit honest about that, and I was a bit embarrassed to make the videos I was making. I started on YouTube, making parenting videos that were like the most basic, basic how to take care of a baby video and I felt like it was a bit exposing or vulnerable to be like look how uneducated this mom is. What if nobody watches or all they see is that this mom didn't even know how to change a diaper?
But it drew an audience of parents who were like, “Oh, cool, like I don't have a mom around or I don't have a sister around or I don't have somebody really familiar with kids to show me the ropes.” So now I'm watching these really basic videos and I'm reading from that. And then once the audience was formed, it became a really kind of kind community to be open about what's hard, what's good. And now I think I found a bit more of a sweet spot.
And I think it's just been this process of figuring out what is what does parenthood look like for my family. And it's allowed to look different for every family and you figure out the rhythms that work in the partnerships that you have. And so yeah, it's taken seven years for me to feel like “Oh yeah, this is something I am excited about.” And I don't know that I always feel good at it, but I feel I feel good inside of it. Like this is mine to do and I can figure this out and I'm surrounded by really good people who help me. You're one of them.
Layne:
Thanks for inviting me. I'm so excited to be one of them. I want to flag that idea of feeling good inside of it. Because that is very different from feeling good at it or even feeling good about it. Like either of those other two things--to feel good about it or to feel good at it--those are kind of this outside looking down at it with with, like, an assessment. Whereas feeling good inside of something I think is so much more powerful of a way to live your life. That requires a kind of presence and a rootedness into the moment that you're in, which is the only moment in which you can actually like meet a child or any other kind of person. You can only do that in the now. So the idea that you have cultivated and worked for and created a space where you know how to be in this moment and just feel yourself and feel good in this now without doing that thing where we disassociate and float above ourselves looking down, like the judge or the maybe the parent who were preferring to not be. You know, like that thing of like looking over your own shoulder with this air of criticism.
Jessica:
Right.
Layne:
I think that's so powerful. And then also the idea that so many people secretly pretend that they do know how to put on a diaper when they do not know how to put on a diaper. That one so specifically, I think is just really potent, because it seems like this super normal thing and people who know how to do it do it so fluidly. And I think even a lot of people walk in...I've trained a lot of preschool teachers, and they sort of walk in and open the diaper and then there's this kind of this moment of like, oh it’s sort of shaped the same on the top and the bottom and and how do I know…
Jessica:
What’s the front and what's the back?
Layne:
Yeah, it seems like it's gonna be super easy. And if you don't know that there are blue dots on the front...And the number of women who I have trained at preschool teaching whose minds have been blown when they take that same diaper off and discover that those blue dots get more blue when there's pee. You don't have to stick your finger in there.
Jessica:
No.
Layne:
Gosh, I just want to like pour one out for moms in the 80s who literally every time had to put their face on it to smell. Those blue dots on the front or...
Jessica:
There are still some cheap diapers that don't but mostly everyone's figured out. Sometimes it's a line that changes color like yellow to blue. That's really important.
Layne:
Yeah, you really don't know..
Jessica:
You really don’t know until you you know until someone teaches you and you experience that so true.
Layne:
Yeah, but there's that sort of secret cold shame feeling like right in the front of your chest. When you realize like, you have to make this gasping moment decision. Like, do I fake this or do I turn to ask somebody? And then if you're a mom, who's there to ask, it's just you and that sweet baby?
Jessica:
Yes. It’s so good you bring that up. I forgot that that happens, but I did have someone babysit my kids for the first time this year for a couple hours. She partway through a diaper change like panic called me and was like, “I forgot to tell you I don't know how to change a diaper.“and I was like, “This is beautiful.”
Layne:
Oh good for her.
Jessica:
So we got to do it together. She's like, “Eloise is trying to show me but I'm just not sure what's the front what's the back” and I was like, “I hear you. It's confusing. Thank you." I feel so validated by her. I see you, this is good.
Layne:
Wow, that's really impressive of her to be able to just ask.
Jessica:
I think so too. What I want to ask is, will you take us further into meeting a kid in the now? What does that look like? Because to some of us, that's a new concept. And that might be a good kind of takeaway from this, aside from everything we're saying, but something really practical that a mother's listening, might bring some perspective to her day and her way of relating to her kid.
Layne:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So my background is in preschool teaching. I did that for a lot of years. I focused heavily on infants and toddlers and then like honed really into toddlers because I think they're unbelievable. Unbelievable. And one of the things that I came away with that feels not unique to me in the sense that nobody else had it, but in the sense that it came so easily to me, is that I felt really able to look at a child and sort of embody their perspective, kind of drop in with them and see what kind of life they are living. And this is one of the things that gets hugely missed about children kind of all the time. Sort of because they don't know how to advocate for themselves, because they're little, because they don't speak, because you sort of own them and feel like they're just kind of…
Jessica:
We're caught up in our reality. So it's you have to really separate yourself to know that theirs is totally different than yours. What's theirs like?
Layne:
Yeah, that's a whole little person down there. From the second that their little doll eyes blink open, even from that moment, that's a whole person with an agenda and a focus and a drive inside. Their attention is real attention just like yours and mine. And it's very easy to lose their perspective. And when we do that, when we're not able to be real mindful of them being whole little lives moving around on the floor around us...It can be very easy as adults to be just kind of like, sort of tossing your own voice or your own thoughts or your ideas at them because you're just inside your own perspective and going along. And that can be where some of either the friction or the missing of one another comes from because they're down there in their brain space and you're over here in your brain space. Each of you is expecting the other to adapt to you, when it's actually two full agendas that are sometimes in competition with one another.
So I think the most potent thing that you can ever do with a child is to, with your actual physical body if you're able, come into wherever their eye line is. The idea that they sort of walk around in the world in a forest of knees and ankles. And if they want to connect with someone's eyeballs, which is sort of like the only way that humans really do that, they have to crane their whole entire face up toward the sky. Like that is a real shift in POV. Their point of view has to alter super significantly in order to connect to you, which is asking a lot of someone who's fresh to being a person and fresh to being on the earth. Whereas if we are the ones with the time and the energy and the perspective about their lives, can come pull down into their space, like both physically and then also just mentally and and energetically--and take that term however you want, but in terms of what comes out of you, whether that's feeling or vibration or intention or however you want to kind of talk about that, that thing that emanates from one person to another--to collect that within myself and come into a child's space into the moment that we're in. Not thinking about 10 of the next things or monitoring the whole room or what I wish they had done before or whatever but to be in the moment in the space with them is the primary thing that a young child will respond to. They feel that so intensely. They are mostly little, like emotion and energy readers when they're super tiny.
Because they still they're still practicing with language. They're still learning about analysis. They still don't have they don't have a ton of perspective because they don't have that backlog of data that you just gained over 1000s and 1000s of days of being a person. So mostly they're sort of like open little portals. Walking around with like open hearts and chests, really trying to kind of scan and read and feel their way through the world. So for you to get down and be in the moment with that child, suddenly you you connect with them and that like that enmeshment can happen so powerfully. And that's where you can, like first just enjoy one another, but then also guide and love and make alterations together and teach and all those things.
Jessica:
That's beautiful, makes so much sense and something that comes to mind is like for the tired mom who might feel like “Oh my gosh, how do I gather my thoughts enough to direct all of us at them,” something really powerful to do is actually just lay on the floor and let your kid kind of climb all over you like a jungle gym. It's amazing how much fun that is for them and how it can be really special for you. And it's just a way of connecting but you're right at their level. I never have framed it in my mind this way that you're describing where it's like they're not having to crane up to like, look at me, they have me and here I'm like, "I'm being lazy mom just laying on the floor," but actually, maybe I'm being a mom who's surviving a really tough night like a teething baby. Or a sleepless toddler or something. And just to lay there with them...And I also was thinking last night I had a moment before bed where I was sitting with Eloise and Wilson. They were drawing and I, it was a rare moment where we can all just be together and I was totally focused on them. And at one point Wilson looks over and he goes “You're a great mom”.
Layne:
Oh my god .
Jessica:
Guys that’s never happened before. Eloise is coloring and she stopped. She goes, “You really are a great mom.”
Layne:
To have a seven year old and a two/three year old to agree...
Jessica:
And I was like, Oh, I bet this wouldn't this wouldn't have even happened if I didn't kind of give myself permission to do this because in my mind, it was like dishes are dirty mess.
Layne:
Right
Jessica:
But I did have a work day. So I wasn't with them during the day. And so I was like trying to carve in some real quality time. And yeah, just a kid's love is really special. And when they get to a point where they can communicate that love back, I just don't know if that would have would have happened that way if I wasn't like right there with them. We were all sitting at their little table--they have like a mini table. So it was everything you're describing of like I'm fully present with them and at their eye line and we're connecting and they have the words to express what that feels for them and to them. It felt like, you're a great mom.
Layne:
That's amazing. Because that's just what they want from you. They just want to be there. And it's not...I love what you're describing in the sense of like, you don't have to muster this up with your mind or your soul. You can just do it with your body. I'm not asking anybody to do anything like big and muscly and challenging. But just to like rest into it and be relaxed about it that way.
Jessica:
And then find a way into it.
Layne:
Yeah, and it can feel like doing nothing to an adult. Because we we go and go and go and go and go. But for them, you have arrived. She's finally here in our world.
Jessica:
I love that. Is that? Is there a certain amount of time that that needs to be done because I what I could hear is like some of the moms who watch me are like, "Wow, I'm so spread thin." And so this conversation could maybe bring some guilt of like, well, but I don't have that much time to get on their level or I have so many responsibilities. Or maybe they have a toddler but they just had a new baby.Is there something to say to that mom about this?
Layne:
Yeah, I think any absolutely any.
Jessica:
I think so.
Layne:
Like genuinely any and wherever it fits with you. That's one of the things that I think is really challenging in the parenting space--and this bleeds over into the education side as well--because when people have these very, "This is how you do it, this is when, here's the here's the formula for when you do it, and you do it every time." I think you go for the gold, and you just say, "When and where can I and in what tiny quantities?" Can I just put this lovely thing in, whether that's a mealtime or a snack? Or just noticing like, "Oh, we're doing this separately when we could be doing it together." Brushing your teeth at the exact same time. If you're both looking in the mirror, you're doing it. You're in it.
Jessica:
Yeah, that's really good. Oh, this is beautiful. I feel like we carry this on for so long. But one of the things we want to do with our podcasts is make the episode digestible, short and meaningful, valuable, something that they walk away from and go, “Yep, that's the thing I'll think about.”
So maybe we've arrived maybe we have arrived. What can they expect from this podcast as they're coming back? I think you and I both agree that we want it to be predictable in the way of comfort. It's nice to come back to something you're familiar with. And you know what to expect. So what can they expect?
Layne:
Yeah, a lot of what you've heard today, a lot of like warmth and togetherness, hopefully a little bit funny, a little bit chatty. We're going to share a lot of stories.
Jessica:
Definitely.
Layne:
I'm going to share what knowledge I have, will draw on your experience.
Jessica:
Yeah.
Layne:
And then one of the things we're really excited about is we're going to be taking listener questions.
Jessica:
Yes, we are
Layne:
Definitely every week wanting to be able to like really answer a real question from a real mom in our community.
Jessica:
What about a dads? Could a dad ask a question?
Layne:
Please? Oh, please could a dad ask question.
Jessica:
We love when dads ask question.
Layne:
One of my favorite things about your business and it's cheeky fun little name is that you also add these little parentheses that say, "Very Good Mothers Club (dads welcome)"
Jessica:
Dads welcome!
Layne:
Dads are not only welcome but so desired. And every other kind of person who takes care of a child.
Jessica:
Yes, that's the thing. I was gonna say that if you love a kid and you need some support in that process, we want to be supportive. We are essentially caring for the parent or the caretaker who was caring for the child. And how could someone ask a question if they want to submit something? So it's our business is Very Good Mothers Club. We call it the clubhouse--something that I found out from you--there's actually something called the clubhouse so that's a little confusing. I just thought it was cute to call it the clubhouse because we're a club. But, let me clear up some confusion. So verygoodmothersclubhouse.com. If you go there, what you'll find is our membership community so that's something people can try out for free for a week. You will love it. We love it. We do calls weekly that people can jump on and meet friends and we always bring some sort of topic that's relevant to the peoples' lives. And then there's also a forum of parents chatting with one another. You're in there. People can ask questions, but that's a way to also submit a question for the podcast. Those people in there will be the first people that we consult with. If they have a question, we're going to answer it if they run out of questions, which there's like 500 people in there so I doubt that will happen, but if they do, we'll probably open it up to like Instagram or something for more. But if you want to be somebody who's asking questions, join the community and submit them there and we will get to you and even if we don't get to it on the podcast, we will get to it in the community.
Layne:
Absolutely. And we as we go we'll build a little bit of infrastructure where fresh, fresh, fresh at the moment.
Jessica:
Totally.
Layne:
We'll get we'll get an email address rolling and we'll get some like very clear paths but for now...
Jessica:
You'll be amazed at how business savvy we'll be later.
Layne:
Super saavy. For the moment we're currently available. You can reach me on Instagram @enquiryco.
Jessica:
@jess_hover. I added the underscore because people thought it was just Shover and so it's Jess hover underscore. It helps.
Layne:
Couldn’t be more clear.
Jessica:
So clear. Great. Is there anything else we need to tell our people other than just they're pretty amazing parents and nailing it.
Layne:
We love you.
Jessica:
We love you, you're amazing parents.
Layne:
And honestly, if you're wondering, Am I a good parent? You are so far into the realm of good parenthood.
Jessica:
That's true. The awareness there. I mean, the fact that they're listening to a podcast or watching a video about this, I mean, they're a better parent than me. I don't watch things
Layne:
Me too--not a parent.
Jessica:
Wow. True. Which we'll get into that too. Why don't you have children?
Layne:
That would be such a fun one.
Jessica:
Okay, okay, well, stay tuned, we'll find out why she's not one and why I don't watch too much too much content on it, which I have a reason a real reason. So dun dun dun!
Layne:
What could it be? We love you!
Jessica:
We love you; bye!
Comments